It's pretty scary to imagine how many people have been victimized by him in his lifetime.

Good luck to you, I hope you are able to help people and certainly respect your desire to do so.

Thanks for the pro-choice sentiment and for being so respectful!

Women dying because conservatives can't figure out that abortion is healthcare burns me to a crisp inside.

Is it your personal belief that until legislation and SCOTUS rulings align such that American citizens have access to all of those things (universal healthcare, high-quality child care network, etc), that every American should have unrestricted access to high-quality, affordable, local abortion healthcare?

I went pretty deep into the ProGrace website and blogs...sadly, leaving the woman's choice intact is not what they are about at all.

Thank you for your comment. I'm only sad I added mine so late to the conversation. I find this entire ProGrace website so scary...they're seeking to educate Christians on how to speak to vulnerable pregnant women in ways more likely to make them open to hearing Christ's message. It would be cringe if it didn't exist in the context of the regressive, christian-army-led hellscape we find ourselves in.

God’s design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child. He has made it impossible for us to try to help one while bypassing the other, but instead calls us to work for the dignity and welfare of both of them.

That's one of their two Core Beliefs--how fucking scary is that? Can you imagine being a woman with an unwanted pregnancy who doesn't have the money or access to just seek the abortion healthcare you need, and you seen an advertisement for "pregnancy crisis help" and you're desperate so you go there and then someone with that "core belief" is talking to you about some bullshit and you realize "oh, these people aren't going to help me get an abortion at all" and then you're just trying to get out of there but you're not trying to be rude....can you imagine that nightmare?? This organization is, in part, training those crisis center people to use trickier language that makes pregnant women feel like their might be some empathy for their situation...so, lengthening the period of time that woman sits in a center having her time wasted.

Can you imagine being a person who thinks that "God's design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child" and believing that you have any right to counsel a woman coping with an unwanted pregnancy??? The delusion is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

The whole this is depressing and shameful.

Yeah it's all just got to be no-strings. No conversation necessary, no information collection beyond logistics-related information, no handing out pamphlets...the religious organization gets nothing at all out of the exchange beyond the knowledge that they've acted in accordance with the tenets Christ laid out so clearly. And I'm sure some extreme tax advantage that would practically make the fleet of cars free or whatever but that can't be helped I guess, after all, this is America.

Also, I would also say maybe look within and ask yourself if you feel good about what you're doing. "Tell me your pain" is quite a thing for a human being to ask of another. If you're asking so you can better sell your god product to other women in the middle of that same pain, well, that's kind of disingenuous if you really pray on it, isn't it?

I'm guessing god and Christian community has probably been pretty transformational in your life, and that you want that for other people, too. I know that is a genuine desire. But it's also a product you're selling, and selling it to someone who is in a potentially super vulnerable position under the guise of trying to help them with their crisis is pretty bad.

The last thing I would ask you to consider, is the fact that abortion is not a difficult choice for many women. They discover they're pregnant, they immediately know that continuing a pregnancy makes no sense and know without hesitation that they need to remove this matter (that does NOT feel like a baby to them at all) from their uterus as soon as possible.

When Christians seek to understand abortion so that they can be "more Christ like" in how they approach it, they often seem to want to hear stories of pain. Like maybe the fact that the woman was in so much pain, agonized over the decision, will never truly get over it, etc, somehow makes it more understandable. "She suffered so much, I can let go of the judgement on my heart" (a WILD sentiment in the context of Christianity, the sacrifice of Jesus, etc.)

But really, many women who have abortions feel about it the same way they would about removing a suspicious mole. It's a health-related chore that needs taking care of. They're not looking forward to it, but they WILL get it done and they will never regret it. Not even for a moment.

So, as you seek to understand, know that. Abortion is healthcare. That is the reality and many women don't feel any other way about it. I think you will hear less stories like that from women because the type of women who answer your call for sharing abortion experiences will more likely be women who have had bad experiences or who feel guilt and want to share it to feel better/seek forgiveness and healing through sharing.

Women who do not regret their abortion will be vastly under-represented in the stories you collect, but I think are very important stories for you to know exist. It's easier to empathize with pain, regret, loss. If you're truly seeking to transform yourselves with empathy around this issue, you need to work to meet "Oh yeah, I didn't want it so I got rid of it and feel no regret at all" with complete understanding.

When you can look a woman in the eye, and listen to her say "Yeah I got sloppy with birth control and got pregnant but I had a trip to Europe coming up that I'd been saving for for a while and it just wasn't a good time for me to even think about a pregnancy or baby so I took a pill and it was gone and EUROPE WAS AMAZING!" and feel no judgement, just acceptance, or maybe even happiness for this woman that Europe was so lit....well. That's when you know you've truly achieved your stated goal.

From the ProGrace website:

The Church being the community of grace and support Jesus intended us to be, can address the reasons of panic, isolation, and shame that cause so many people to think abortion is their only option.

What a frightening sentence to have to read.

There is no such thing as "ProGrace"--this "third option" is co-opting and trickery. The question of whether women should have full access to healthcare during pregnancy is a completely binary one. The answer is Yes or No.

You either recognize that abortion is healthcare and believe that safe access to this healthcare, from a variety of providers, for any of the many reasons a woman may need or want it, is a woman's right, OR...you do not. Period. That's the whole thing. Any vague "third choice" is marketing trickery meant to soften the face of something that should disgust us all.

Also from ProGrace:

Our Core Beliefs 1: God’s design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child. He has made it impossible for us to try to help one while bypassing the other, but instead calls us to work for the dignity and welfare of both of them.

That really sums it up, doesn't it? "God's design for pregnancy"--this isn't a stance in healthcare conversations that should be given a moment of thought. It's fiction.

If Christians would like to begin encouraging each other to stop being judgmental toward people who have had abortions, I think that would be great. But keep the whole thing in-house, make it about Christians talking to other Christians about how they can get their behavior in line with their supposed religious beliefs. Don't make the whole thing about teaching Christians how to speak more empathetically to people who have had or are considering abortion for the purpose of being able to more successfully sell Jesus to those people. Because that's what this whole thing is actually about.

If you really want to help pregnant women the way Jesus would have wanted you to, use some of that sweet, sweet untaxed money from your money piles to start a car service that ONLY gives free rides (chauffeur style with the tinted window between the driver and passenger if the passenger would like to have it up) to women and one or two support people to and from their abortions. No conversation, no strings attached. And pay for the abortions. And throw in a Starbucks card with like $25 on it. Show these women the heart of Christ with your actions, not with phony words meant to control their minds, and maybe after they have their abortion that act of no-strings-attached kindness will have made such and impact that they will seek out a "church community" themselves instead of having to be coerced and cajoled into one in a moment of true despair.

Seriously, this is your new campaign...."WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? He would drive you to your abortion and pay for it, too, cause he was just that kind of guy."

EDIT: typo.

Hell of a read, thanks so much for posting.

The best piece of advice I've ever been given, received in a moment when I didn't know how to go on simply because of how broken hearted I was: The way forward is with a broken heart.

Since that day, I have noticed how many "broken-hearted but still moving" people I know. Living is hard and very few of us are not carrying wounds of some kind. But here we all are...just out here, walking around with broken hearts...but busy hands, and feet that keep moving forward.

Thank you for reading my poem.

And yet, if anything has changed at all it's because they're getting worse.

Yes, a little louder for the American's in the room! Religious conservatism is spread the world over and is a danger to us all no matter what religion takes it up.

We cannot turn our backs on it. It cannot be contained to certain areas. It must be eradicated the world over. Women's rights are human rights. No ideology that seeks to degrade women or deny them rights, even if the women of that culture have internalized the lie of that ideology and seek to live it out, should be tolerated anywhere in the world.

The name of the religion matters little if at all. The ideology is the same. It is a man's fist gripping a woman such that she moves, breathes, even thinks at his will and whim. It makes women things to be possessed. Fuck that.

My god, the horror of this excerpt.

I tried hormonal IUDs and wasn't a great fit for them (hormones have always been really difficult for my body to handle) but I LOVED copper IUDs for many years. I've known so many women who raved about hormonal IUDs...lighter periods, reliable birth control--what's not to love!?

So happy your IUD works for you. I shout from the rooftops any time I'm able to about IUDs. Best birth control ever!

I'm glad to hear that your medication is so helpful for you! I am also (mostly) estranged from my mother and understand what it is like to navigate all of this without a mom. It's so strange, trying to piece together clues from what I know of her experience and then match them up to my own to see if we are the same, if I'm her daughter in the way I experience perimenopause while not really being her daughter in so many other ways.

I'm sorry menopause caused your mother to take such a turn. I bet she's really far from alone in that. It seems to have such profound emotional and mental health effects on some women. I'm lucky that age dulled my mother's edges, even if our past and the person she used to be makes it impossible for me to trust or be close with her now. At least she settled into something more peaceful with age--your mother sounds so miserable and emotionally dangerous.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I'm so proud to take part in these conversations! We are not alone and what's happening to our bodies is not strange or bad. We deserve care when we are struggling and camaraderie as we adjust to new seasons of life. I'm so happy for all women who feel comfortable sharing, and for those who lurk and learn and feel less alone because of the women who share!

<3 <3 <3 <3

I'm so happy for your breezy menopause, but happier still that I've been hearing about and having so many conversations about peri and menopause in recent times. We've come along way from "The Change" being some spooky, hidden thing that women shoulder alone...it makes me so happy that women are discussing their experiences with one another and demanding/finding good care when they need it.

I'm not there yet, though I believe I have entered peri. I had an ablation last fall due to pretty severe, chronic cycle-related anemia and it changed my life. I definitely understand how you feel about not missing the leaking, middle of the night surprises, etc. That part of having a period being (mostly) gone for me has truly been a game changer.

Question for you, please only answer if you're comfortable: is the mood medication you are taking hormonal, like specifically for hormonal mood issues? Or traditional psychiatric medication?

I've definitely known several women who said menopause was very easy and wonderful for them. My own mother suffered pretty terribly with it, but I also know she received no care and didn't take anything to try and ease things...so I'm trying to gather as much information as I can on what is working for others. I'm hopeful that I will have an easier time of it than my mother.

Congratulations again. I wish you a continued easy breezy path. Thank you so much for sharing this with others, it's so vital that women run into conversations like this. Some women still don't know that we're out here, talking about all of this!

Anyone who wants to come is more than welcome to 🥰 It’s not terribly active at the moment. I would love for more people to come and participate in whatever conversations people find valuable.

I would argue a bit with your first paragraph, though I find the whole of your sentiments well stated.

I think the question posed by OP is actually a critically important one to answer for each of us, within ourselves, and for all of us together (human race). The question really means "what do you feel entitled to, and what do you expect from yourself and others?"

Expectations and entitlements come to form the foundation of the relationship(s) we have with ourselves and others.

When you observe the "typically considered masculine" traits and activities, what would they lead you to believe "men" feel/are "supposed to feel" entitled to? Taking up space? Aggression? Leadership? And are these things typically expected of men?

For "typically considered feminine" traits and activities, what would we probably agree they lend themselves to, in terms of entitlements? Being entitled to nurturing others? Entitled to protection? Objectification/entitled to being an object? To being vulnerable? And are these things typically expected of women?

The implications of these entitlements are infinitely complex and include every commentary that can be made about society. Really look back at my last paragraph--women are entitled to vulnerability. We often call it an expectation that women are weaker, and that sucks, but it is also an expectation that women are naturally more vulnerable. What a crime, that we actively cut boys and men off from this, that it is so engrained in many cultures that men should avoid appearing or being vulnerable.

Figuring out what you feel entitled to, and what you don't, and how those perceived entitlements/lack thereof jive with who you are and how you actually wish to live on planet earth is critical to healing from, well, the trauma of living on planet earth. As is better understanding what you expect of others, and why.

A lot of our worst tendencies are born out of how we cope with the discrepancies between what we feel entitled to/what's expected of us versus how we actually want to live in the world. Or, what we feel entitled to versus how others want to live in the world.

I see the massive cultural focus on these kinds of questions not as boring, but as evidence that humans are figuring out how to move beyond these entitlements and expectations that chain us. We're shaking the shackles of primal social structure to make way for something else, new expectations of ourselves and others.

It took me a long time to understand the implications for me as a person of feeling entitled to objectification, for instance. Being a man's highly valued object is something many women strive for, unknowingly in many cases. Deeply internalized patriarchy will definitely do that to you. It takes a lot of introspection to see that in yourself and untangle it from your being. It's a scary process and there's a lot of shame involved, but beginning to be able to regard myself as just a person, to see myself as a beautiful, worthy creature, and love myself thusly, has made it worth the pursuit.

Similarly, I've known men who have struggled with masculinity and coming to terms with the fact that there are traits and activities that they simply do not feel entitled to because they are seen as feminine and, therefore, only women are entitled to them. I'm recalling in this moment a man I know who is terrified of becoming a father, because he is afraid of nurturing. He has never felt entitled to nurturing or to being a nurturer. He has focused all of his emotional energy on attempting to perfect male assertiveness, a general aloofness and air of "manly stoicism"--much like his father--and doesn't know how to give himself permission to nurture. He struggles to really be vulnerable with his wife because "he's supposed to know, supposed to care for her and make her feel safe"--what a web of sadness. Nothing to do with sexuality, everything to do with what all the world, including himself, has expected of him all his life (masculinity) because he was born with a penis.

Identifying what we feel entitled to "by birthright" is the beginning of untangling the falseness of gender expectations that we have for ourselves and others. "Who do I think am I supposed to be, and why do I think that?" is a good question to ask. "What does femininity or masculinity mean to you" is a great way to needle ones way inward, toward that question.

To me, answering that question in ourselves is the beginning of personal freedom and just being, of self loving. And if you love yourself, truly, I think it's pretty hard to get in the way of anyone else loving themselves, regardless of how they identify, or whether they "fit the mold" they were supposedly cast from.

I love this! Thank you for posting!

First, “Medical anthropologist”—what a fascinating field of study! I feel like we need more of these people!

Second, a heartbreaking read. Nowhere is institutional racism more evidently harmful than it is in the institution of medicine. It’s shocking and disappointing that with the mountains of evidence that this is happening, nothing is being done.

Follow-up thought, regarding your comment about faces: as a mother, I always wonder what the impact is on children of having a mother who is sometimes allowed to move about freely/uncovered, and other times is completely covered. To cover someone’s face even to their own children. That’s something.

Yes, all of this…you’ve put an interesting thought in my head, re: a blank slate for others to project on. I’m a “movie person” and love watching on a projector/screen. Obviously people project onto others all the time in a figurative sense, but it’s a pretty poignant remark to note that completely covered women could literally be projected onto. The level of erasure is pretty stunning, but the idea that you could not only erase but literally protect anything you wanted onto these women. Wow.

I need some really talented artist to create an art installation where different things are being projected onto covered women.

Looks like it is compromised once again? It was fine for me and just a minute ago went back to “Israel” and porn.

Yeah, rogue police officers taking it upon themselves to start acting like overseers tasked with capturing women seeking healthcare in other states is a huge problem. Women's Healthcare destination states need to start cracking down on that kind of behavior very hard.

Right? I’ve had my kids and am now horrified to watch them (three of them girls) growing up in this new, terrifying world.

Exactly.

I’ve been so proud of the state of Washington in all of this. Thank you.

ALL.

Indeed :( they’re a nightmare.

Thanks for this dude it’s really good

Long boi

I agree completely. Thriving instead of surviving is where we need to be focused across the board. Most people are hanging on by a thread in at least one area of their lives…medically, mentally, in terms of balance/workload, in their relationships, financially. For many women, Menopause becomes a foundational health crisis for this reason.

It wouldn’t be SO bad if you could….stop working, had the money to drastically change your diet and eat what you need to, could easily get the help of professionals dedicated to women’s health issues, weren’t struggling with the cultural phenomenon of “Women’s Guilt” and all the ways that effects how we asses and address our medical experiences, had the support you need to focus on your health without your home and family management machine (you, in many cases) breaking down…and on and on.

It’s a societal issue rooted just as much in culture/patriarchy/etc as it is in a lack of medical research. A more holistic approach to understanding this phase of life is going to be so critical…and, I fear, is very far away.

I think this is another one of those things where, if you chase the reasons “why not?” back to the root, the actual reason we can’t have more funded studies into women’s health issues (holistically or otherwise) is the same reason, increasingly, that we can’t have anything nice.

Shareholder capitalism has a stranglehold on our culture and systems (of governance, scientific discovery, etc). Until we move past this way of living, humanity will continue to struggle with things like funding important research, the masses not having the support and medical interventions they need, etc.

When we eventually move beyond a system that is built to satisfy shareholders, and start prioritizing the human experience and putting everything we’ve got behind improving it, we’ll be able to take a more holistic look at what could become a truly incredible phase of life for all women: beyond child bearing years, turned more to self, wiser, ready to create in a new way.

I don’t know that I will see this future, but I am happy to think about it existing at some point. Humanity is ready to move past our biological imperative “produce more people until you’re old, then die.” With the right methodology and incentives in place, our medical and technological advances could be put to the service of human kind to such delightful ends.

Nasty

100% correct. Incentives matter. Advertising delights no one and skews incentives hard.

I actually don’t know that the Suns will seed that high. I like this though…the west is going to be wild, that’s for sure.

I had no idea about black women having a different menopause experience! As a mixed black/white woman this was wild (and feels vital) to read.

!women@lemmy.world

I am so excited by this news. Menopause is not talked about enough, and is not well enough understood. It’s so life shattering for many women (my own mother has been through so so much, it hurt to watch and be able to do nothing).

As a woman who is almost forty and has just this year been experiencing my first real health concerns in her life, the prospect of making decisions around hormone treatments has been quite frightening. The choice has felt like “oh, shrivel into a miserable husk of who you once were” OR “have fun with breast cancer!”—what kind of choice is this?

You did it!! Wow!